As has been widely reported at this point, we are very sorry to announce that Apple removed our VoiceCentral app from the App Store. This happened suddenly, swiftly and with virtually no advance notice from Apple.
Repeated emails yesterday to Apple have still been ignored at this point. We did receive a voicemail at our main office from the same Richard who called our competitor. Unfortunately it wasn’t until today that we were able to connect for our “conversation”. The word conversation really doesn’t cover it because what transpired was not informative by design and felt like theater of the absurd. It went roughly like this:
Richard: “I’m calling to let you know that VoiceCentral has been removed from the App Store because it duplicates features of the iPhone.”
Me: “I don’t understand that reasoning. By that logic wouldn’t apps like Textfree, Skype, fring, or iCall be considered duplicates?”
Richard: “I can’t discuss other apps with you.”
Me: “It’s not the apps themselves I want to discuss just the lack of consistency in rule enforcement.”
Richard: “I can only say that yours duplicates features of the iPhone and was causing confusion in the user community. It’s against our policy.”
Me: “So what has changed that it is now against policy? It has been in the store for the last 4 months with no problem. There wasn’t a problem for the 1.5 months prior to that when you were ‘reviewing’ it. And this didn’t come up with any of the updates we submitted after it was already in the store.”
Richard: “I can’t say – only that yours is not complying with our policy.”
Me: “Can you tell me what portions of the app were duplicate features?”
Richard: “I can’t go into granular detail.”
Me: “Is there something we can change or alter in order to regain compliance and get back in the Store?”
Richard: “I can’t say.”
Me: “Well if we can’t figure out the issue then how will we know whether to resubmit the app. And how will we know whether to invest in any other development efforts? Future apps could be impacted.”
Richard: “I can’t help you with that”
Me: “So how do we know whether it is still viable for us to consider Apple a partner if this is how the scenario plays out. If you were in my shoes would you continue to invest blood, sweat, tears and money in something that can be killed off at any moment without your say so?”
Richard: “I understand your point but I can’t help you with that.”
Me: “Surely someone there at Apple asked you to make this phone call. Can I speak with that person about this?”
Richard: “I am the only one you can speak with on this subject.”
Me: “There has to be someone there I can actually have a back and forth with so that we can make some strategic decisions on whether this partnership makes any sense.”
Richard: “You can only talk to me”
Me: “Nothing personal since I know you have just been tasked to make this call but we aren’t really talking here. There’s no back and forth and you aren’t allowed to answer any questions. Can I implore you to ask your managers if there is anyone who would be willing to speak with me and have a real conversation? I don’t care if it needs to be off the record or we need to sign another top-secret NDA but we really have nothing to go on at this point. We will need to make business decisions on whether it makes any sense to continue developing.”
Richard: “I will relay that to my managers.”
Now please understand some things lost in the writing of the above dialogue:
- First and foremost, the above is quoted just for grammatical presentation and none of it should be considered actual quotations. The conversation followed that basic path but included several other pleasantries and elements that I eliminated so it didn’t get any longer than it already was.
- Second, while I knew early on that our little chat wasn’t going to go anywhere I felt it my personal mission to make him understand the difficulty of the position it puts us in. As in: We are just a small business trying to make it in these tough times and yet we will have to answer to our shared customers so give us something we can tell them.
- Finally, Richard was extremely professional and very nice in every way. He was however absolutely impenetrable when it came to getting useful information. But in the end he was the messenger and we will not shoot him. We simply hope that he does in fact relay my heartfelt request for a real conversation to his management. Hopefully one of them will be empowered enough to take us up on that.
Where do we go from here?
There’s a lot of speculation all over today about who’s to blame. Is it Apple? AT&T?
I’d like to know that answer too. I have my opinion on it but that’s not all that important. What is far more important is the way it was handled. Once again the developer is treated terrible, given no data, and left to go back empty-handed, palms up to the collective user community.
We won’t make any rash decisions until the smoke clears a little over the next few days. We are going to do some more digging and weigh some more options before we announce our plans. But we will say this: someone at Apple owes us a better explanation if not an apology. (My preference would be to speak with Steve Jobs but so far we have not had a response to our email.)
What can you do?
Complain to Apple: http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html
Complain to AT&T: 1-800-331-0500
Stay tuned for more info and announcements here and via Twitter. If you have the app already please know that it will continue to function “as is” for the moment, it will just be impossible for us to provide fixes and improvements obviously. Also spread this blog post so that maybe Apple will get the message even if Richard didn’t come through!
Update (3/8/10):
Apple left us with no choice so we have created our own way around the app store woes. Check out VoiceCentral Black Swan Edition here: http://voicecentral.riverturn.com
Tags: Things We Don't Like
Wonderful posting. There are a lot of us developers out there that have been burned by Apple’s esoteric reasons for rejection. I have an article I wrote a few days ago after my brother and I have been struggling with 2 apps we are still attempting to get into the App Store.
http://www.chrisdanielson.com/2009/07/28/apple-app-store-scalability-issues-and-subjective-rejections/
Regards,
Chris
My iPod Touch definately does not have built in functionality that is duplicated by VoiceCentral!
Apple are being very short-sighted with this approach.
Apple’s advantage over Rim, Android etc is that they have lots of developers working on apps for the Apple app store – why would they want to push developers into developing on the other platforms…
I feel bad for you guys having your app pulled without any explanation – hope it all gets sorted! Good luck.
The solution…DON’T BUY AN IPHONE!
(Yeah that’s right you fanbois)
I hope this stuff shakes up the cellphone industry drastically.
ALL of the plans are scams anyway. We live in a digital age. The whole concept of “minutes” and “texts” is very 20th century. It’s all digital bits anyway. It should be a fee for connecting to the network and that’s it. Use any device (computer, phone, etc) and use it how you like (voice, text, email, surfing, whatever). It should be no different from your connection at home.
We won’t see real competition on this until the carriers are broken up – again.
I’m surprised no one has pointed out that the common nickname for Richard is “Dick”.
I just wanted to send a little reminder to apple on why I purchased the OpenMoko instead of an iPhone. There’s actually two reasons, I’ll be brief though.
1. You’ve tied it to a network I refuse to use, if I purchased an iPhone it would have to be a T-Mobile based or completely unlocked GSM device, such as the OpenMoko.
2. http://www.riverturn.com/blog/?p=455 sums it up pretty much. I thought Microsoft was bad, you guys take the cake. Glad I switched to BlackBerry, they have so many more apps, and you aren’t required to jailbreak your phone to use apps not published in THEIR app store.
Footnote: GNU/Linux isn’t listed in your operating system list below, way to encourage me to dislike apple even more than I did when I started writing this.
I just had a friend tell me how much I needed an iphone, how cool they were and all that jazz. Glad I read this post before I actually shelled out the money.
I had been reluctant to buy anyway because the majority of people I know don’t use AT&T as a service provider so all of my calls would burn minutes.
How bout you post it on Cydia? Your competitor did. It won’t help your business model problems but maybe it’ll help point out our displeasure to Apple.
Both Apple and ATT suck. Why don’t you start developing apps for the Pre. Palm has always embraced the developer community since the beginning.
Handled very poorly, but does not surprise me coming from Apple. It is so horrible because of all the work you guys have done on the app. Maybe you should look to Android, Pre and Blackberry for future development
I agree this is a strange and not informative. I would really like know who is pulling this behind the stage. I dont see why apple would care much if you had a phone like service on the iPhone. apple just wants its OS and product out there. AT&T wants you to use their service and their minutes, im sure it has something to do with them.
a small discrepancy like this changing your thoughts about getting apple hardware is retarded btw
Time to move on to Cydia, boys. This is one of the exact, stupid reasons that it even exists.
I am real sorry you guys are facing such a dilemma. I am a proud owner of a Palm Pre, and would more than welcome the opportunity to buy your application on the WebOS platform.
I agree. Apple is too secretive when dealing with developers, especially when there is no disadvantage to Apple to communicate. In most cases, it is preferable to tell people the reasons for actions.
I’ve had a similar issue with my Mac application. Apple will not post it to their downloads page from which most micro-isvs receive their downloads. I have no idea if its a legal or competitive issue or if they simply do not like the application. They spend all the effort to provide development tools and resources, and when it comes time to publish an application they refuse with no explanation.
Overall, I underestimated the chokehold Apple has on iPhone and Mac software. They largely dictate the terms and distribution venues.
Clearly, from a business perspective, no one can in practice afford to throw money at iPhone development without knowing if Apple will reject it for reasons which will not be revealed.
If Apple does this enough, it will create a secrecy ceiling which will provide cover for competitors. Android and Pre can still make a big dent if they support their developers.
The best place to take this is the EU. They will definitely act on activities by Apple to limit fair use of their products. Their beef is not just against Microsoft.
This kind of stuff makes me think twice about investing in building iPhone apps. I’ve been thinking about it, but time is money, and I’m not in the position to through money away.
Just to think that I can buy an app that makes fart sounds, but I can’t buy one that allows me to manage my phone calls…. on my PHONE!
Here is my complaint I sent to Apple earlier today:
With regard to the App Store decision to yank VoiceCentral I must admit that I really, really resent the general comment that “… it causes user confusion”. Who are you to speak on my behalf? I am clever enough to buy Macs and IPhones and Touch’s but apparentely not intelligent enough to decide for my self whether a given App is something I can use before I buy it and Apple reaps 30% of the purchase price.
Regards,
MG
PS Please note that i have categorized these comments as Bug Report – a serious bug with the App Store policies.
Of course you should shoot the messenger!
letting people hide their stupidity behind a layer of insulation is just letting them get away with being stupid. if Richard is willing to take the payment for relaying the stupidity then he’s being paid to take your frustrations. Pretty soon he’ll either quit and the stupid ones robbed of their insulation, or he will vent back at the stupid people with everything they deserve.
Hey it’s time to port the app over to the Palm PRE!!!!
I do think that is what continues Apple’s up and down history. The first company that can put a phone out there and just open it up, let everyone develop whatever for it will take over the market and Apple will be playing by itself again. Maybe that’s the Palm Pre or maybe it’s something else. Time will tell.
I feel for you guys… and I’m glad I bought the app before they yanked it from the store. Hopefully they won’t yank it off my phone, too!
If I had to guess, its your apps ability to send SMS messages through Google Voice, bypassing the need to pay AT&T for their SMS plan that got you banned. Every other feature is either a data feature anyway or ends up using AT&T minutes (when Google Voice calls you back) so shouldn’t be a problem.
Iphone = fail.
Palm Pre is where its at
Seriously, get off the iphone bandwaggon and develop for the other smartphone users out there who were smart enough to realize how bad AT&T wireless is by itself, let alone coupled with the big fruit.
Take heart, today’s Wall Street Journal reports the FCC has started an inquiry into Apple’s “rejection og Google’s Web-telephony software for the iPhone.”
I always considered Apple to be a crappy company (mostly selling over-priced junk – hell, I’d rather build myself a 400$ computer and put Linux on it and it’ll run better than a Mac, or use my 3 year old Sony Ericsson than buy an iPhone), and finally they proved that their character is crappy, too.
No wonder they have so many fanboys. Half the world is retarded and those alike stay together.
My opinion, save your strength, neurons and pride and develop for any other platform. I’m 99% certain noone else will treat you like this again.
Fortunately we now have a Government with some balls! The United States Federal Communications Commission is investigating Apple and AT&T and their reprehensible behavior regarding the pulling of iPhone apps.
Sadly, it took the mistake of pulling a Major Player’s app to get the ball rolling and indeed this avalanche of Negative Publicity will have years of loud repercussions. More importantly, it will FORCE Apple to start disclosing what goes on behind closed doors. And even if Apple attempts to restrict their comments to the Federal Communications Commission, the hordes of citizens using their Constitutionally given right of the Freedom of Information Act will make all this public.
Apple, you have messed up one too many times! Now be ready to pay the price of your arrogance.
Bring on the Android. Apple produces great gear but all power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The best tonic is competition and Android has none of the MS baggage.
If apple persist, those with really good ideas will not ‘risk’ them on Apple’s cartel like practices.
Jailbreak. Problem solved.
I have a software/hardware compatibility problem, but it is not with the end user. There problem doesn’t even start at the developers leg of things. The malfunction between the hardware and software is the AppStore approval process. You have hardware that obviously don’t understand how to stick to policy, and they go back on their word cost other people more and more money than it ever should have in the first place. Now this is what I fail to understand. You approve and app, it gets put in the AppStore and is sold for, say, 4 months. Now that you have decided to pull the app because it “duplicates” iPhone features? Are you fucking serious?
Maybe we should kill Skype, fring, and any of the other applications that allow text messages to be sent over the data network. Last I checked these are all programs that duplicate some features of the iPhone. Well shit, we might as well nurf the rest of the AppStore. So here is where I really have a problem. You make money for hosting the apps, not designing, making, and producing them. Yet when you pull an application that has been in the AppStore for months, and then you ask the developer to refund the money they made off of their application because YOU decided to pull it?
So now you have cost the developer more money, time, and resources that were not needed before. Do you loose anything in this process? No. You don’t give a shit about it at all. On top of all of thise you are extremely vague in why, how or what caused the removal. You give the developer no information on why it is no longer in the AppStore. Last I checked, in the judicial system, vague laws are unacceptable, and they are thrown out as being worthless. Maybe that is what iPhone users should do with the AppStore.
I am officially jailbreaking my phone as of today. No one can stop me. Not even you. Maybe I’ll purchase apps through cydia because at least I know I am not supporting a vague company. And if I even need an app that is in the AppStore but not in cydia, I will just go to http://appulo.us
You will not see any more of my money until you have strict guidelines on what will and will not approve. I am sick of the way you treat your iPhone developers. You are lucky to have the ones you already have.
So much for being an Apple fan, I don’t even want to admit that anymore. Too many idiots. You are joining Microsoft.
Back in the day of Apple II and the first Macs I was a developer/OEM working with a local Apple computer store (not apple corp owned back then). The screwed us too. We moved our app to IBM and never looked back. Eventually Apple forced the store to close after they spent tons of $$ on a training center.
Working with Apple is like working with lions. You never know when you’re going to get eaten.
Transcript of my complaint:
Just read an article about the way Google Voice (GV) has been removed from the app store. I also read a transcript of the phone conversation the developer had with apple. This information has influenced my decision to upgrade my first generation iPhone to the new iPhone 3gs. When I do upgrade my phone hardware it will not be an iPhone. This is quite unfortunate. I love my iPhone. I have no doubt that all other devices in the iPhone’s class are inferior and by switching to one of those devices I’ll be downgrading. I don’t think there’s a device that compares to it, but one of the things that makes it so great is the software (apps) that I use on it. When a developer is treated in the way that this one has been, the consumer suffers. My take on the transcript of the conversation with the developer is basically this:
Developer (D): “Our apps missing from the store what happened?”
Apple (A): “It’s not allowed.”
D: “It used to be allowed, what changed.”
A: “Nuh uh.”
D: “Please communicate with me and let me know what happened or what I can do.”
A: “Your face!”
D: “Really, you won’t at least let me know if I should even try to keep developing for the iPhone?”
A: “Your mama’s baby’s face!”
D: “Can I at least talk to someone else?”
A: “Shut up.”
This just seems like a crappy way to treat the people who are out there trying to make the best phone on the market better.
P.S.
I didn’t own GV and actually have no intention of owning it. I just think it’s crappy the way the developer is being treated.
I had the same issue and our small company decided to stop supporting Apple. We will just develop for Android and Win Mobile. Despite the fact that Apple has a huge market share, this is still economically feasible.
I have a question for you out there developing for the iPhone. Didn’t you know that going into this that Apple has a walled garden approach to mostly everything that they do? Is this really a surprise? I support you guys 100% but as sexy as the iPhone is I made a decsion that I would not buy one based on the closed nature of Apple business model. You guys work hard and have every right to be mad, and I’m glad that the FCC is looking into this, but Apple has been like this for a long long time. Thats without AT&T’s help. Was it a surprise to you that this could happen at some point?
Stop whining. Apple habitually screws their Sheeple Customers and their so-called partners. You didn’t really thing you’d be treated any differently, did you? This will continue to be the case as long as Apple’s customers continue to focus only on the gadgets they produce and not on the company that produced them or their customer/corporate ethics.
Google has done the same thing, to some extent. Your bitter hate for Microsoft somehow precludes you from writing apps for Windows Mobile, even though Windows Mobile users such as myself would HAPPILY pay for Google Apps, if only you would write them. Google maps was a great start: Now get on with it, ditch the pricks at Apple, and start writing Apps for people that will appreciate your work, blood, sweat and tears.
I am about to switch from Blackberry (T-Mobile) to Iphone (ATT). After this thing happened….I have given up the idea. It make me feel that Apple is just as evil as ATT. I will still with mu Blackberry for now….and may consider HTC Hero.
I just got the app in cydia. I cant use it because I don’t have an account yet (invite only, right?) but as soon as I do I’ll be donating generously
Keep up the good fight!
Why would they take your call at all if they are going to speak like that to you? If there is one thing worse than being ignored it’s being ignored in person. The person may have been polite.. the act was impolite and doubly insulting. I would cut my losses with dealing with Apple if I were you. They are an unreliable business proposition.
I sent this message to Apple Feedback as a bug report. Hope it stings somebody:
“Apparently there is a severe bug that hampers customers’ ability to use their iPhone. Apps seem to disappear without notice, service at events is disrupted, and a host of other complaints about functionality. I am very impressed with the looks of the iPhone, but will never get one until I’m convinced I will be able to use it without all these problems.”
I’m suing Apple, wanna join me?
Nice summary of the conversation as it goes with Apple. I don’t envy Richard’s position, he must have to call lots of developers. I’ve gotten a similar call from him about 6 months ago and the “conversation” went pretty much the same way – it’s basically a dictation of terms with any probing questions receiving a “I can not comment on that.” He’s extremely polite and pleasant, but it’s not really a useful conversation other than getting some rejection justification that Apple specifically chooses to not put in writing.
Partners and agreements with AT&T and others have to be considered in these matters. I don’t belive Apple is to blame.
This is, in my humble opinion, a very strong reason for NOT developing an application for the iPhone.
Apple is simply Microsoft Jr. wanting to control EVERYTHING and taking as much money as it can take.
When companies like this realize that it’s better business to play nicely with EVERYONE, they’ll be better off in the long run. Oh but that’s not how these companies see the world. It’s always “Grab as much as we can now before it dries up.”
Wow – That’s pretty rediculous of Apple to do that. I own an iPod Touch, and Google Voice definitely wouldn’t duplicate anything I have there. I’d just have to buy a mic for my iPod Touch.
I’ve thought for quite a while that Apple wants too much control, and I think this definitely goes too far. This makes me want to see other sources for apps than just the App Store. Oh yeah, there are other sources – Time to jailbreak my iPod again.
the first 3 letters of Apple is App.
this article just helps me to never buy an Apple product, ever!
When the iPhone duplicates the availiability of my voicemails transcribed online, along with the ability to choose who calls on which phone, and free text messaging, I will be happy to concede that they have all the services that gvoice provides. Until then, they need to think hard about doing something like this. Does Google need to start redirecting all searches for “iPhone” to “t-mobile g-2 touch” to get the point across? Oh, it’s OK, the g-2 provides all the same services…
Should have done your app on the most open platform with the largest marketshare: Windows Mobile. Ironic that M$, the epitome of closed source, makes the most open smartphone platform…
You can still do everything any of these apps do by simply calling your Google Voice phone number or using the Google Voice web site.
Google Voice is actually very limited in what it does (just plays games with call forwarding using the database telecommunication carriers set up to support number portability), what it is causing to occur is the biggest thing to ever happen in the telecommunication industry. I can’t say for sure where we will be in a year or two but Its going to be interesting to watch this total transformation of an industry to occur.
Well, you can put the app on Cydia…